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Post by George Keen on Jun 12, 2008 0:00:57 GMT -4
Diane, very well put and Guest, I never had a contract with Chet either. I fully agree with the Corp vs family run. Gary Howe is a great example as is Ron Flinn and Paul Zimmermen to name a few. Berlin will never be the same, but nothing is anymore is it ?? Geo
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Post by dmxmotorsports on Jun 16, 2008 7:56:05 GMT -4
Mark-I am curious to where you got your info regarding the legality of photos, waivers etc. My father in law was a promoter at Berlin for many years and I don't ever recall such chaos about photographers. Chester was thankful to have one. Tom was the only person willing to do it for 20 years and he didn't have any contracts, waivers or problems in that area ever. Tom's parents had a booth behind the main grandstand to sell pictures and he was the only vendor that did not pay for rental space or a percentage. He always provided photo's for ads and the annual souvenir program at no charge. They had what used to be called a gentleman's agreement. I truly feel bad for Tom because I think his pictures were his main source of income. I hope this soon blows over with an acceptable outcome to all. Diane, I had to grow up quick in my racing series. We had Corporate and family owned tracks we raced at. I had Corporate Sponsors so i had to have my ducks all lined up before each season started. I think Budweiser was the one who got me the most in lined because of their State to State law Changes. Back in the day when your family ran Berlin a Gentleman's agreement was fine. Now days is when lawyers and corporate people saw the money to be made in motorsports and now we have the rich mans hobby. Most of the family owned Teams are struggling to a point that one wreck could could send them to the pits for the rest of the year. I am the perfect example with my position on Gates Racing. Economy and lack of sponsors has it so we can't afford the tires for my car to be on the track even for the limited schedule I was running. But back to the point. I used a corporate lawyer here in Grand Rapids to draw up all of my contracts and set our team up as a legit business with a LLC. We worked with Budweiser legal department to obtain most of the stuff we needed to protect our sponsors and our team. As for the photographer side I needed to know the legal side of things because i had a full time team photographer. I had no idea where he was allowed at the tracks or what he was allowed to do. So between my lawyers I worked with here in town and other menas like contacting MIS to get their intake on all of this. I also worked with our AMRA Series Photographer Jerry Cumming form Eagle Photography to get information from him. He deals with this all over the country with not only our AMRA but also with the AHDRA series. So that is where I got most of my information on this issue. And again I worked it form a corporate owned track more then family. I figured if I was safe with corporate tracks I would have no problem at Family owned track like Beach Bend Race Park in Bowling Green KY. Just remember though Berlin used to run with gentlemen agreements for a reason. it was about the racing not the almighty dollar back then. IF I am spending $20,000 on proposals and Legal contracts to get my team off the ground to drag race a Motorcycle where does that leave your back yard mechanic who just wants to run a Sportsman car for weekend fun with his family? That is one reason why I don't have a problem helping people here in West Michigan who struggle every year to get sponsorship to keep racing by helping them build a professional proposal to achieve their goals. By me helping them I win in the long run. If more sponsors start looking at motorsports as a great inexpensive means to advertise again it will help everyone involved. Tracks, Racers, Sponsors I have developed my team to create a return on investment for our sponsors. If you can't figure out how to do that then don't ask for a sponsorship or at least let them know you can't do anything to get them that Return on investment and this is more like a donation. Just bringing a race car out to set up at their place of business is not bringing in dollars to them. If you go to a corporate sponsor you have to change up alittle to get them to sponsor you. I have in my proposal how much kissing up my team needs to do for the person who makes decisions on how much he will get for sponsoring my team. Budweiser gets such a small percentage of return by sponsoring me that they don't even look at that. It is a combination of things to get a corperate sponsor to jump aboard. OK I have taken this to a new level again. But Diane you did ask a great question I hope I answered it well for you and gave you an understanding of the struggles race teams now have. 10 years ago this wasn't so in depth. Just go out and have fun. The dollar has taken control. Mark Mensch #222 #46
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Post by yoshiki1327 on Jun 16, 2008 12:26:19 GMT -4
The question I want to ask is does anyone know if Randy is under contract with Berlin for certain or is he just known as the track photographer? Geo your so right that Berlin will never be what it was for 50 yrs when Chet's family had it. The only way it will even come close to that is if Whitecaps sell to someone who has a heart for racing as did Mysliwiec's family. Wouldn't it be great if we could have cloned Chet and the next Chet just took over where THE CHET left off. lol Another who would be great buying out Berlin would be the Howe family! I've been going to Berlin for 30+ years and the last 2 or 3 years I find it hard going to the track just because of the Corp way things are out there. I remember right up until the Mysliwiec's sold the track sitting in line waiting to get in back to the highway in Marne or past Camp N Cruise the other way. Another question I have and maybe Diane or Geo could answer is when the Whitecaps bought the contract out was there a time limit on how long they had to hold the contract before they could sell if they wanted?
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Post by Bill W on Jun 16, 2008 13:27:52 GMT -4
Berlin has a 25 year lease with the Fair Board I believe and I am pretty sure they have to have the Fair Boards approval to sublet it or to negotiate a new lease with the board. I have no idea what their relationship is with the board, but the Board consists of just normal folk and I am guessing they have their problems with Whitecaps Racing also. They also have shareholders (16 I think, at $59,000 each) that invested with them and they would have to buy them out also. I( would be a pretty expensive proposition and probably to high considering the investment in improvements they made. So don'hold your breath. Just an opinion.
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Post by Fan on Jul 31, 2008 8:40:56 GMT -4
Rumor has it that Tom DeVette will be in the stands on Saturday Aug 2. with his Dad...everyone look for him and show your support and wear your "Free Tom" shirts...if you don't have one yet contact TimHorvath at Horvath Designs.
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Post by Tim Horvath II on Jul 31, 2008 13:25:36 GMT -4
I heard that also!!! If you need a shirt we still have some they are $5 email me or call me and i will save you one!!!
Tim Horvath II Horvath Design 616-813-6915 Tim@HorvathDesign.com
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Post by Guest on Aug 1, 2008 9:27:50 GMT -4
Tom DeVette was great at taking pics. We always bought pictures and order pictures from him. he would always make them look so wonderful. We have huge ones hanging in my house of the cars. I don't buy Randy Ellen photos. I think they looked horrible. Tom could always catch the action well.
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Post by Tami on Aug 2, 2008 10:10:10 GMT -4
HEY QUIT KNOCKING RANDY, HE DID US ALL A FAVOR BY PUTTING HIS EGO - OOOPS -- LOGO IN THE MIDDLE OF HIS PICTURES SO YOU CAN'T TELL HOW BAD THEY ARE. SMART MOVE. NOW IF HE JUST QUITS TAKING PICTURES OF MORE GIRLS THAN CARS. THIS MAN HAS A PROBLEM, AND PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO TALK ABOUT IT MORE AND MORE. THIS SHOULD MAKE THE TRACKS UNCOMFORTABLE AND I KNOW SOME PARENTS HAVE COMPLAINED ABOUT THE PICTURES OF THEIR DAUGHTERS ON THE WEB. IT IS NOT A GOOD THING. BUT IT WILL ALL GET BETTER.
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Post by Guest on Aug 2, 2008 12:54:27 GMT -4
HAHAHA the only way it will get better is if Berlin wises up and realizes they made a huge mistake making Randy the track photographer and letting Tom get away. By doing that they got to the racers and fans yet again and mad us even madder at them. They sure do know which buttons to push and know how to push everyone away even more. They need to realize that Randy isn't producing the way Tom did and does. Its nice to see that the drivers and fans aren't buying from Randy the way he hoped they would!
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Post by Gail on Aug 3, 2008 8:33:08 GMT -4
Tom, it was so nice to see you back at Berlin Saturday night, but you looked unnatural without a camera ! Your return looked like it was a 2 very different tales, one being the way the Berlin Raceway management treated you (negatively and like you are a criminal, which is wrong, because you did nothing wrong, to be d**ned by following the rules set forth by Berlin itself? -- and Randy was not d**ned or asked to leave after selling pictures in the pit the 3 years while you were our photographer out there?) and the vast majority of the fans, drivers and all the regular people from Berlin. Please do not let the likes of Scott Lane and Mike Strevel talk for all of Berlin Raceway, they are overruled by everyone else (at least in being positive from most everyone else) Your devotion and love for racing, especially Berlin, made a natural invite to come back and help Berlin celebrate its anniversary. And after the races, when you came down into the pits (I understand you cannot go down there during the racing events?) and showed your class by going around and congratulating the winning drivers. It looked like you were greatly and positively received by the entire pit area people too and they all told you that they backed you all the way. I am being long winded here, but I just had to get this all written down. I hope the rumors are true, that with the Boyne races coming up, you are going to be allowed back in and take pictures too, wow, it will be like old times !! You will be were your should be, in the pits at Berlin, doing what you have been doing for so very many years, taking the pictures of the day's events. Keep your spirits up Tom, I am sure that one day again you will be back at Berlin fulltime, taking pictures without the negativeness of the Berlin management.
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Post by Guest on Aug 3, 2008 9:48:38 GMT -4
Something I find really funny is after looking at the Berlin program from last night full of ads which is understandable is the one and only superstar photographer that Berlin now has in Randy Allen has a ad in there which is on page 45. Guess maybe they don't think as highly of him after all. I can't believe on his ad it has only 2 racing pictures and its in a racing program?? Neither of which are recent pictures of racing. He sure is still holding on to Little E's pic to promote his pictures. Where are the pic's from 2008? Another thing about his pic's is by him putting the logo over them it discourages one to buy them considering when you look at them you can't see what the pic really looks like. I honestly can't see Berlin having Randy back next year but instead bringing the true racing photographer back to make the racers and fans happy in Tom!! I have to agree it sure was nice to see Tom and his dad back at the track last night.
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me
Rookie
Posts: 2
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Post by me on Aug 3, 2008 11:11:11 GMT -4
if randy is the track photo man why was he it at 131 dragway sat. nite, not that i missed him
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Post by tj miller on Aug 6, 2008 9:01:52 GMT -4
Last Sunday, Aug. 3, Tom DeVette came to our car show in Moline. As usual, he took lots of awesome pictures which are posted on his web site. I have known Tom for at least 15 years and have enjoyed and bought many pictures from him at prices that were very reasonable. As for Randy, I do not know him, but I have noticed last year already that, as Tami wrote, he takes many pictures of girls at the track. Now I like to see good looking women as any guy does, but that isn't what I want to see when looking for pictures of the race or the cars. Tom's pictures are tastfully taken with the racing family in mind. Thanks for doing such a great job for so many years to both Tom and his dad. Keep buying pictures by Tom DeVette Photography.
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Post by Guest on Aug 18, 2008 14:03:24 GMT -4
Wow, Tom DeVette got some great shots at MIS! Check them out on his website. Nice job Tom!
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Post by GAIL on Dec 23, 2008 21:32:25 GMT -4
WORD HAS IT THAT TOM WILL BE BACK TAKING PICTURES AT BERLIN IN 2009 LIKE ANY OTHER PHOTOGRAPHER THERE (THERE WILL BE NO TRACK PHOTOGRAPHER) WITHOUT ANY PROBLEMS TO WORRY ABOUT.
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